Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 <inaudible>
Speaker 1 00:00:11 Good morning, LinkedIn community. Welcome to another great episode of coffee that Jim and James, we are excited today as James and I got our guests ready today. The term icons came to our head. And when you have people like this, that are icons in the energy industry, uh, we don't take that lightly. Icons are people that anybody in the industry can call about many different things and they have whole industry knowledge and they like to share that. So we're excited about that, but before we get to our guests, let me bring in my brother in arms, my brother in crime, Mr. James Cross, James, how are you? This fine and beautiful morning. I'm well, I'm excited for our guest today. Um, just, just having a laugh with each other in the pre the pre-game to the show is worth worth having, uh, both Brad and Jeff on, but if you haven't realized that, um, my boss that's really why it's on and sucking up. Uh, Jeff Isabel, our president VWN is joining us today as well as Mr. Brad, heck, who is the director of corporate compliance with Miller pipeline. And we found out today that he's in his third and sixth year with Miller, which was pretty impressive. So I think icon says, it says it right on the nose. So Brad and Jeff, welcome to the show today. We appreciate your joining us. It's great to be here. It's always great to be here. Fantastic. To be surrounded by brothers and friends.
Speaker 2 00:01:43 Yeah. Thank you, Jim and James was great to, uh, have, have the coffee with you and you know, the amazing thing, James, when you talked about 36 years, the most amazing part is I'm only 37.
Speaker 1 00:01:57 You look 38, but I con on icon, you know, we, uh, brought you on the show to talk a little bit about the DCA and Oh, QIP and a few other initiatives like that. And I think we'll just dive right into it. Um, first of all, you know, we in the energy industry use a lot of acronyms all the time, so DCA O QIP, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Can you guys break that down a little bit for us and let us know a little bit of the why's and what has driven this whole process and a little high level, 30,000 foot view?
Speaker 2 00:02:32 Sure. Uh, Jim would love to do that. Um, the acronym DCA stands for the distribution contractors association, and that is a very large, uh, national association that is, has, uh, many, uh, distribution contractors. Some of them also are involved with the, uh, the transmission and the hazardous liquids, uh, business as well. Um, and then many vendors that service, uh, those are also members, associate members, uh, the UIP or affectionately as I like to refer to it as Oak cap, uh, stands for the operator qualification integrity process. And that, uh, is what has derived from our Genesis. When we first started looking into, uh, this initiative about, uh, Oh what four years ago, maybe thereabouts. And, um, it really started out with the contractor group looking at ways that we could identify, how can we get individuals qualified and meeting the gas operators, expectations, the federal regulatory expectations, but yet do it in an efficient and an effective way so that we don't have, I guess, multiple means and multiple processes for the same individual on the same tasks portability, if you will, is a, is a word that was utilized early on.
Speaker 2 00:04:00 I will say however that the members of the Oak KIPP, uh, process, uh, looked at it from, as we're putting these pieces parts together to have integrity and what it is we do for qualifications, if suddenly we suddenly realized that it wasn't just portability that we're talking about, but rather if it's raising the bar and having full out integrity and everything we do with the people involved the processes behind it, the methodologies utilized and then the accountabilities, if you will, or the auditing process to validate that we do what we say and how we do it and we can validate it. So that's kind of a cliff notes of we got, we were here and we're now here.
Speaker 3 00:04:52 Awesome. Thanks Brad. That, that clears it up. I think for a lot of people that maybe are not familiar, uh, fortunately, and maybe unfortunately I work really closely with Jeff and I've seen the program kind of over, you said the last four, four years or so really from, from that Genesis stage to where we're at now, I've seen that, that kind of honing in on what that looks like. And Jeff, since Brad took that first one, I'm going to, I'm going to put this question that you, what, how has that, how has the QIP program really evolved to what it is today and what kind of changes have occurred over those four years?
Speaker 4 00:05:32 Yeah, absolutely. It's a great question. Because when we first started out, as Brad mentioned, it was really started off in the contractor community and it was based on a local need and certainly a service providers in the industry. We see that a lot, right? As contractors come to us and they're having to get requalified for the exact same programs or tasks that they're already qualified in other places, there's a lot of redundancy and therefore a lot of inefficiency in what they do. And that was the, as Brad mentioned for the program. But as we began to collect a group of experts in the industry to talk about how we construct this type of program, it did involve evolve into more of an integrity basis and others in the industry, namely operators begin to see that it's equally benefited beneficial for them as well. So what we've seen is, and again, it's a bit of a stereotype, right?
Speaker 4 00:06:19 We, we look at contractors and oftentimes will wrongly stereotype saying, well, contractors are only going to do with the operator, tells them to do right. They're not going to do anything more. And certainly from our experience as a service provider, we've seen the opposite. We've seen contractors such as Miller take the high road in, in the far hot, far and above and beyond in terms of the level of, of their programs. And that's what we had here, was the contractors driving this initiative. And then the operators engaging in saying, you know, what's good for the goose is good for the Gander. And we like this and we like it for our own employees. So the evolution has been an origination in the contractor community to the involvement of operators, uh, involvement of regulatory entities at a state level, uh, some independent consultants and, uh, a variety of, of large-scale industry associations.
Speaker 4 00:07:10 You know, the Western energy Institute APGA AGA uh, SGA has been involved in the past, uh, uh, MEA. So we have a number of organizations that have really made a vested interest. Uh, investment in this program can see it move to the next level. So, uh, as Brad mentioned, it went from, uh, uh, a long time focus since the origin of the OCU rule around portability to one around integrity. And, uh, we have to have trust in the industry and in the processes that, you know, not all OCU pro programs are created equal and there's recognition for that. And so the evolution has really been one about program effectiveness and the quality, the security, the trust around those programs to try to raise the bar and set a higher standard that goes far above and beyond the minimum OCU will, as we know it today.
Speaker 3 00:08:01 Jeff and Jim, I'm going to let you ask the next question here in just a second, but I wanted to kind of piggyback on that, uh, what Jeff said and ask a question and really this is both Brad and Jeff, but, and this is going to sound funny, but I know we're, I know we're in the early stages four years in, but as far as, you know, really what the next steps and everything look like, what does the, the reception been like from both contractors and operators in your eyes, um, with this initiative?
Speaker 4 00:08:37 Yeah, I think that the reception has been good. I think anytime that you have a change, you know, it's, it's, you know, who moved my cheese, right? You know, uh, we get very comfortable with where we are and what the expectations are. And so if we have a script of, this is what the OTO role requires, why would I want to deviate from it? So a lot of it has been very to help people understand why they need to look at making some changes and as people become better educated on the processes and the impact. And certainly as we see, uh, events or incidents or concerns in the industry, then it really helps shine a light on, okay. Yes, this really is something that we pay attention to. So as we've, as we've gone through this evolution, we have seen both operators and contractors, um, you know, embrace the level of change and realize that there is a need to go above and beyond where they're at, uh, and, and create a higher standard.
Speaker 4 00:09:28 So it's going to continue to play out in that way. I think for a period of time, you know, we often talk about it being, um, a marathon, not a sprint. Uh, so this is going to take time. So when you really try to make a radical change in the industry, that's not mandated through regulation, it's a voluntary initiative, then, uh, it, it takes a cycle of time for people to recognize the value and then to adopt it. I think that we've been very successful in the fact that, uh, the trade associations, which represent the majority of all operators in the industry. So when they speak at our, our meetings, they're speaking on behalf of their membership. Uh, so I think that, that says a lot. And as we request feedback on the documents, as they get drafted, we do get a lot of feedback and there is a lot of support for the recognition and appreciation for defining the why. So a lot of times you're told what to do, but certainly as adults and even as kids, we want to know why we need to do that. And as we begin to explain the why behind it and the importance and significance, then, uh, it helps breed a higher level of appreciation and adoption for what we're trying to accomplish, which is safety.
Speaker 2 00:10:35 I would just add. I would just add to that, that one of the actions that the Oak KIPP group has done is they reached out to industry. They reached out to the operators to contractor community. They reached out to the gas associations and, and offered up the written document, uh, and were asking for feedback, looking to see if these things were identified within the written document. Did it hit the points and what kind of questions do you have? What kind of input do you have? Uh, we went out to the community and we, we just clashed your grill. If you will. Uh, the industry, we received back an excess of 500 comments from industry, much like our <inaudible> process. When the B3 one Q first came about, we went to industry, we asked industry, what do you think you have some input did the same thing.
Speaker 2 00:11:34 We got some very, very valid responses back. And then what we did is we, uh, out of our group, we have them segmented into, uh, the different cracks within our process people process and then, uh, program validation. And the team leads will be each one of those then addressed those of questions and those kinds of inputs that the con that the, uh, industry itself offered up really good stuff. Many of those ideas and concepts we actually adopted and we inserted within the program. Um, some of them were, uh, kind of redundant. Uh, some of them were, you know, Hey, uh, maybe you missed this line here, but we addressed, you know, it's kind of like the old w what was the spaghetti commercials back in the days it's in there, it's in there, you know, that kind of thing. So, uh, so yeah, really, really a robust process to make sure that it has validation in the industry.
Speaker 2 00:12:27 And it has been vetted by, uh, operators, contractors and whatnot. Another thing I'd also offer up is early on, uh, you know, 20 years ago when OCU first came about, there was attempts then to try and have what we referred to as portability. Well, everybody, any group or any attempt to have portability was always focused on a hundred percent portability. So if you've got qualified under one system on one particular task, that was good, wherever you went well, that kind of discounted the individual operators expectations for their standards and procedures. So a few years ago, we kind of talked about, um, and we, we threw this out at the DCA AGA, uh, um, contractor operator workshops in Chicago. When we talked about the 80 20 rule, if you will, 80% of all the tasks, it could be 90, it could be 70, but just for a conceptualization anyway, 80% of the pieces or the functions that we do with any task in the system is not unique to any one operator it's universally true.
Speaker 2 00:13:38 And so therefore the 20%, if you will give or take, will be unique to the specifics of that gas company standards. So therefore let's take a look at the 80% piece, which is universally true and see what we can do to address those pieces. So that an individual who gets qualified to that portion, they can take that with them anywhere they go, which will then say immense amount of time, financial considerations, productivity, downtime of an individual to only have to address that gas company specific standards for that task, for which he's already got the universally true element of. So that was where the Genesis was as Western. Yeah.
Speaker 4 00:14:19 Yeah. And I'd like to add onto what Brad's saying there. I think a key word that maybe we haven't mentioned yet is consistency. Uh, when we talk about the B3 to when Q the, the OIC QIP program adopted the B3, one Q is the base model for this, because it is a universally true standard. You look at any given task and the steps or sequence of events that need to occur to safely perform a task with competence are successively listed there, right? So, you know what that core competency should look like. It's standard, it's consistent. If an operator is adopting that at least for that 80%, then you know, that that's going to be universally true. So when we look at a lot of the things that we're doing within the OIC QIP program, some of it is an administrative level activity. So we're talking about having consistency in how OCU programs are administered, you know, what our minimum test scores, what should content look like?
Speaker 4 00:15:10 What's the, the, the level of rigor in both the training and in the written assessments and the performance evaluations. What about the competency and quality of the people that are administering those programs? What kind of credentials do they need to have? How do you validate an audit the quality of the program overall, uh, you know, what kind of wait periods that you have? What happens if someone fails an exam? What happens if someone gets suspended from a task? So all of these are elements that we've addressed in the program, trying to build a consistent level of program operation. Now, again, operators can continue to go higher than that. What we're trying to set that minimum standard at higher than what the OCU rule says, which is very vague and ambiguous in many ways, and raise that to a level of integrity and trust that people can accept and say, okay, if I'm looking at programs from two different organizations, I know that they are rigorous programs that have high quality and therefore safety and reliability in the quality of the continent tent, and then therefore the quality of the person performing those jobs out in the field.
Speaker 4 00:16:12 And so that's really the big golden objective, right, is to make sure that when we say someone is qualified to perform this task, it actually means something. And it's universally known and understood what that is and how that would be defined.
Speaker 1 00:16:28 James, I just have to say the passion that, I mean, I'm sitting here riveted and I, these are friends of mine, and I'm still riveted, you know, with this it's great,
Speaker 3 00:16:39 Jim, I, I, I was in close proximity with Jeff when, when the OQI P really, I mean, getting its legs and taking off. And I think even during some of it, Jeff and I were really close in proximity as offices across the hall, by, by osmosis alone, I learned so much, and I got to look at PowerPoints and clean them up and do things. So I, you know, hearing things like the 80 20 rule and, you know, the three P's and all those things, I'm like, yes, these are two passionate guys that thank the Lord. There's somebody that passionate.
Speaker 1 00:17:21 Absolutely. I think, uh, we're I think James and I are on the same wave like now. And I don't know if James won't say, ask her if I should, or we both can,
Speaker 3 00:17:28 But covered. I've got a sneaky little question I'm gonna sneak in at the,
Speaker 1 00:17:33 Okay. I'd love, let mine be brief because you know, me, I'm one of those futuristic thinkers it's in my strength finders. So let me just throw this question at you real quickly, the future, what's a point that you want to see or that you would need to see, or that you're about that it was going to
Speaker 4 00:17:50 Happen with us and there's no right or wrong answer. It's just a ready and set crystal ball. We're looking into, uh, Jeff taken away. All right. Well, I think, you know, one of the first things that we're looking for is the proof is in the pudding, right? It's, uh, putting it to the test. And so we have, uh, three different operators along with service providers and contractors that are going through a beta pilot program course with COVID. A lot of that has,
Speaker 2 00:18:15 And, and, and I'll, and I'll add their state regulators too.
Speaker 4 00:18:20 Yes. And state regulators. Right. So what we've done is we we've been able to identify three groups of people, uh, based on a state level regulator, right. That, that the regulatory entity embraces what we're doing and supports it. Number two, that the operator embraces it and supports it and is, you know, actively reworking their programs to align with this, the service providers that they rely on are supporting them in that effort and embrace this program. And then the contractor, some of the key contractors that are DCA members are embracing it and supporting it as well. So you have an end to end solution here where all the key stakeholders are invested in trying to raise the bar purely on a voluntary basis. And I think that speaks volumes about the, the integrity and the, uh, the, the rigor of the companies involved in, in what they're trying to do in the industry.
Speaker 4 00:19:12 And so for us, you know, what's next, what's the future ball. We want to see that play out, you know, through these, these pilot programs and get real life feedback on what works and what does it so that we can continue to refine it, to make it something that people are comfortable with, that they're excited about. Uh, yes, we're asking people to do more than what they're used to, but it's fair. It's reasonable. And it makes them feel good about the work that they're doing. They know that when they get told that they're done, it actually means something significant. Yes. And not to discount programs that are out there already, but it's always great when you, when you achieve a major milestone. And I view this as a major milestone for both the industry and for these organizations that are participating.
Speaker 2 00:19:55 And that would just add to that, um, that would, that would go along the lines that, although this sets out some expectations to raise that bar, believe it or not, as the federal regulators and state regulators have reviewed what, what it is, we're offering their comments of bed. That's exactly what the intent of the OCU rule was meant for you're right on the button. So that's number one. The second thing I would say is because we're looking at this from raising the bar to have some integrity in the deployment of operator qualifications and the processes behind it, and the people it's far easier. In fact, it's, it's almost a slam dunk that the transferability of one individual worker that holds a specific qualification from one company to another company can be an easy transition without any other organization asking what does he really have and what was really the process done behind it? Or someone just pushing papers? Was it some admin sitting behind the, answering the phones, just checking the boxes, is there some integrity behind it? And so it makes it a lot easier to just transfer that person over. At which point, then look at the cost savings, look at the productivity savings. Look at the integrity that we can say is included in what the individual has as a credential.
Speaker 3 00:21:32 Love it. Yeah. Fantastic.
Speaker 4 00:21:35 Well said, Brad, Ken
Speaker 3 00:21:37 Passion, that just is oozing through all those words. So you two should start a show.
Speaker 4 00:21:48 I'd have to be a late night show.
Speaker 3 00:21:49 One where y'all read the, um,
Speaker 2 00:21:53 Would it be called, would it be called the, the mutton Jeff show? Maybe? I don't know.
Speaker 3 00:22:00 All right. I have one question. I'm going off script here, guys. I know much about that, but I'll start with Jeff. So you've got a little bit more time, Brad, but then closing out shows with this, because I think it's really important. So, Jeff, I got a question for you do love what you do.
Speaker 4 00:22:19 Oh, absolutely. I think that, uh, that's, that's the key behind everything is having passion. Uh, people often say, you know, if you, if you love what you do, you'll never work a day in your life. Uh, and so we see a lot of folks retired and then, and then they come back to the industry because they just love what they do and they want to contribute. I think that for myself, for Brad, for a lot of other folks, in fact, Brad, just, and I just talked about this the other day on, on a personal call, you know, the passion that we have for the industry, the love that we have for the industry, we, there are so many great people. I've worked in different industries, but the energy and utility industry is fantastic. The quality and caliber of the folks, both from a professional and a personal level, you develop friends and you develop, you know, professional colleagues all at the same time and how can that be wrong?
Speaker 4 00:23:04 So when we go to events, it's always like for even this right today, this is like a reunion day. Um, especially being separated from some of the industry events. So yeah, it's a, it makes it very easy to get excited to get involved. When, when you know that you're making a difference, you're doing something meaningful, important. You love the people that you're working with. And at the end of the day, you know, you're helping, uh, you know, people out in the industry, you know, with, uh, the quality, their careers, their job, and ultimately their safety and going home to their families every day. And that's something to be proud of and to get excited about
Speaker 3 00:23:37 Brad, you can just say, ditto, if you want, the floor is yours, sir. Do you love what you do? I hope so. After
Speaker 1 00:23:46 Six years of memory and memory.
Speaker 2 00:23:48 Yeah. Jeff, Jeff, well, thank you. Yeah, Jeff hit it right on the head and I'll just add just a couple of pieces and that is when you deal with, and when you work with the people that we do in our industry, regardless of whether it's, uh, other organizations, associations, even cross the line from an LDC world to a transmission world or to a hazardous liquids world, the quality of people, the subject matter expertise, the willing to work together in partnership to achieve good and phenomenal things. I personally believe that you don't see that in every industry in those country, but it's very unique and it's very specialized and it exists in the world of pipeline operations. It's a wonderful thing. The second thing I'd add to that is when you have leadership and when you have quality people in leadership positions, like I am privileged to have at Miller pipeline, it's amazing how just the leadership perspective and the culture that the leadership provides within each one of these organizations, including Miller pipeline allows for greatness to foster. And this is something that you can't put a price on that that is phenomenal.
Speaker 1 00:25:13 Yeah, I agree. Yeah. I hate to be the bearer of news, but if we don't wind this down, the next thing you know, it'll be next week's episode. We'll still kind of kept on going for your 284 hours, but we can do part two. You know what? We probably will do part two where we just talk about fishing and not going on breadth boat. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:25:38 I agree. One thing I would offer before we conclude, I would encourage anybody that is listening or watching this cast to go to OCU, ip.org, <inaudible> dot org to get additional information. We've got a great website. We've got the document to review. We've got the process, we've got all the validations we've got, FAQ's all kinds of things that are in there to help anybody, uh, in, in answering any questions that they may have further. Yeah,
Speaker 4 00:26:12 I'll add onto that because we posted it as part of the Oak qip.org website. There's also a podcast that, uh, Myra, my and I recorded with Russell treat, uh, as part of the pipeliners podcast. It was a, I think about a June 9th episode. So as you go through and you look at all that information and get a full download of the document itself as it's written today, uh, inter a lot of FAQ's are posted out there about what the process means and looks like and where we're going and, and what the expectations are. But then there's also, uh, some other background information that you listen to to understand why the B 31 Q what role that plays in this and what we're trying to achieve through the QIP program. Awesome. Excellent. Final thoughts. Anything else, gentlemen, before wind it down? It's your platform. This is your show. So
Speaker 2 00:26:57 I want to thank you. I want to thank you folks. This is wonderful to have a platform like this, to talk about something that, that Jeff and I are passionate of, and we love our industry and we love the people in it. And thank you so much for offering this up.
Speaker 4 00:27:12 I don't want to, I want to thank you guys as well, but also want to say thanks to everybody else. That's on the committee, the task force, we have a phenomenal group of folks that have volunteered their time. Their companies have made a financial investment to get them there. So they are financially investing in the future of the industry by allowing those folks to go and spend quite a bit of time. Over the years of building this program out, having meetings, traveling around, you know, putting documents together, providing internal resources. As James mentioned earlier, doing PowerPoint for industry presentations, writing drafting, editing, program documents, creating forms and audit protocols, you name it. There is a lot of work that's gone on and, uh, it's, uh, it's taken the entirety of, of that team to do that. So my thanks to everybody that's been participating.
Speaker 2 00:27:58 And so for your listeners to this cast, please go to <inaudible> dot org and look at all the members that are a part of this that made this happen and reach out to them. And thank them there. They've put a lot of energy and effort into this. Yes. Amen.
Speaker 4 00:28:19 I've heard that before. All right. On behalf of James and I, we cannot thank you two enough for joining us today. Absolute pleasure. You know, when we say that we love you, it is a true thing and everything that you're doing for the industry, uh, we can't thank you enough. And we encourage our viewers out there to please connect with Jeff and please connect with Brad. If you have questions, shoot them a message. They're great people. They would want to, you know, respond and help you or point you in the right direction on whatever it is. Um, as always on behalf of James and I, we appreciate you listening. If you would like to be on our show, drop us a note. You never know who's going to be the next guest. So until then God bless you and God bless her industry. And everybody please stay safe and take care. We'll see you next week.
Speaker 3 00:29:07 Bye. Thank you guys. Bye-bye.
