Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Getting together and having the ability to meet with folks and to talk about a subject that honestly, I myself am even scared to talk about.
It's one of those areas that it's known, but it's also very hard to, I mean, just really hard to talk about. But it should be.
[00:00:19] Speaker B: Yeah, it almost feels taboo.
[00:00:22] Speaker A: You know, I was going to use that word. Yeah, taboo. But it's so big, James. I mean, I just did a little looking. And in the 20 years from 2000 to 2020, I think over 800,000 people in the United States took their life.
The height as far as the biggest year was 2022, with nearly 50,000 people whose death was by suicide. And it's just staggering. And then a little bit more research into our industry where, you know, construction and mining is one of the biggest, largest industries that is affected. And I tell you, it's, you know, and again, James, I got to tell you, you know, myself being sober for 13 years, I used to not talk about alcoholism. I used to not go to that place. And I, and I avoided it. And then I got over that hump. And now, you know, everybody knows. I herald and shout it from the mountain tops. And I think what we need to do is really take a look at ourselves and open up ourselves and talk about this when we feel right, not, not necessarily haphazardly, but in a way that, you know, feels comfortable to us and really look out for our friends. I mean, that's an unfortunate part that, you know, it's all around us for.
[00:01:43] Speaker B: A little bit of context. We are recording today really ahead of schedule, but for release during September, which is suicide prevention month.
And, you know, four years ago, almost five years ago coming up, I wouldn't. If you would have told me this is what we were going to be doing with the show, I think we probably all would have laughed and said, you're crazy. But such an important topic. So thankful for our friends over at Miller and Artera, companies as a whole, dds being involved and bringing it to our attention. Laura, our good friend who's been on the show, Rockstar, says, hey, I've got an idea. We perk up and listen, right? And so the idea was this, and she facilitated some conversation within our terra about really an initiative and a group that they've put together to go to work, to really work on mental health in general. But also specifically, this is one that hits home with them. Suicide prevention, they're a large organization. And so you got a lot of people. People are impacted. You just said the numbers. It's hard not to avoid it. I know personally, I have family. It's been deeply impacted, and it kind of feeds on itself. When it gets in a family, you see it happen again and again. You've seen it on both sides of my family. So when I heard it, I wanted to be involved. You were immediately, you know, on board with it. It was just a matter of making it happen. So when we were able to sit down with Eileen and Jim Fox, Eileen Atkinson from Miller Puckland, who we know, we've known for a long time, we saw their names on there and we heard their stories. I remember we got an email early in the week before we recorded, and I think both of us probably cried in our hands. We did.
Yeah.
Their stories meant something. And so we realized, man, you know, we need to think about this one a little bit differently. And so we slowed down, took a little bit of time, and thought, you know, this needs a little bit of context before people jump into this. Aileen has shared her story and her brother's story throughout the years on LinkedIn and other platforms. So Jim and I actually knew, you know, the story to some degree, but to hear her and to experience that yesterday when we recorded, man, I needed a minute yesterday after it was all done, after both of them, you know, but it means something to hear those stories firsthand and to get to be the one to bring those stories to everybody. So, you know, in a month where it's about awareness, it's always about awareness, you know, 988, whatever you want to say, pick up the phone, reach out to somebody, we feel very blessed to be able to bring these stories to our industry.
[00:05:04] Speaker A: Yep. And I'll just add in a little bit when I did a little bit of research just to enlighten myself. The 988 is something you can call or text, and they say on there that if it's not even for yourself, but if you see signs, and that's the other thing I'd like to say, is that by going on the web, you look for signs where people from little things like giving possessions away, that they're like, oh, I don't need it anymore. And you're like, this is a prized possession you've had for years, etcetera. I mean, there's a lot of different signs on there, and they encourage the 988. If you see something ready for this, see something, say something. If something doesn't seem right, call the 988 to get yourself, you know, get your, get some advice from a professional there. Don't wait.
It's better to talk to somebody. Yeah.
[00:05:52] Speaker B: Yeah. So we're gonna dive right in. We're gonna start with Eileen's story.
She joined us, and she was so nervous to share her story, but also so brave. There was no doubt she was gonna do it. She just.
She needed a little bit of time to ramp up. But, man, once she started, there was no doubt why she was there. Let's jump on and join Eileen right in the conversation.
[00:06:21] Speaker C: First, thank you both for taking the time to talk about this topic. As you mentioned, September is suicide prevention month as well as suicide prevention week for the construction industry, which is what we do every day. So I never thought I would be in this position or affected by suicide. It's not something I hope that anybody's affected by, but that's inevitable, unfortunately. But it's really ignorant to me because it hits home.
I'm one of nine kids. There's eight girls and one boy. And my brother James, he was 21, and in 2020, he took his life September 24, 2020, and he was also in the construction industry.
And I remember that day, that night that I got the call, and it's a trigger for me, but I remember I had just went to bed, and I keep my phone on the vibrate, and I turned over, and I heard my phone vibrating. And I remember thinking, like, who's texting? Who's calling me? And then it was my mom when she told my sister. And I didn't get to her house right away, before I could even respond to her, she's sending message after message after message to get home. So I jumped out of bed, and I thought it was my dad or my grandpa.
I didn't know, didn't never think it would be my brother or any of my siblings. And I pulled up to my mom's house, my sister's house. They lived right by each other, and she was in the driveway. I knew it wasn't good. I walked in the house. My one sister was already crying.
And my mom just told us there was an accident. My brother took his legs, so I don't really remember. I try not to remember everything right then. I just know that the next day, I was on the airplane in California and with my sisters, and I spent two weeks out there.
My brother was. He worked out of town, so he was out of town as well.
That took a lot of logistics. Funeral. It was 2020. You know, we started planning his funeral, and they told us, I think, ten or 1020 people. And I explained to the woman that he has eight sisters and two parents. So that's ten people right there. Hey, we need a little bit of leeway. And my brothers come shut the entire company down for the day. And I am not kidding. We were only told 20 people, about 250 people were there. And they all had their trucks, they all had their lights on, and they lined them up, and it was.
That was beautiful. Again, I just. They showed up for my brother. They showed up as a company. Support my brother just for us. Losing somebody by suicide is a tragedy. It's something that you don't have answers to. And I feel like, you know, death is inevitable. It's going to happen, but when it's by suicide, I think it's a lot different.
There's voids that can never be filled. You beat yourself up, wondering why. You have no explanation why. Like my sisters and I, like I said, there's eight of eight girls, one boy. It's like, how did we notice any signs his girlfriend left? You know, what could we have done as a family? Help him? And we still don't know to this day. We don't know why really want to continue to bring awareness. I want people to know they're not alone, especially in the industry. I know we're in a male dominated field, and I know men have a lot of pride. They're really stubborn, and, you know, there's always that they have to be a man. They can't show signs of weakness. And that's just one stigma I want to break. That doesn't make you weak. It makes you. And that goes for men and women. Yeah. After my brother passed, I.
I knew I wasn't okay and my sisters weren't okay, and I knew I wanted to do more because this, like I mentioned, I don't want one person to ever have the experience or feeling that my family and I had. So I got into therapy right away, trying to deal with grief. I didn't know how to really deal with this type of grief, and I was trying to understand the lie because I don't know why, and I still don't know why. And I still constantly ask myself that all the time. Therapy went really well. I also did it through the employee assistance program that's offered through work, which I'm huge on that, too. I really, really try to tell people it's so beneficial, because sometimes therapy can get expensive. Your insurance doesn't cover it, but there's programs through your work. So I did that. My therapist was amazing. She gave me tools, resources. After my therapy session, I recorded a video, and I shared that with my sisters because some of them weren't comfortable going to therapy or I didn't want. But I still feel like I had to share what I learned in therapy with my sisters to help them heal and just different coping mechanisms. I know if I could talk about it, impact it has, and if somebody. If I strike that cord with that one person, then I know I'm making a difference, even if it's not with somebody that's thinking about it, but somebody that is also struggling because they lost a loved one. They don't know what to do. They don't direct you to go as far as healing and resources.
I want to be that person. That's why, you know, you guys know, I share my story often on LinkedIn. I share it on all my social platforms. All it takes is one person to come across, one person to reshare it.
My sisters and I are part of the AFSP, which is the American for Foundation, American foundation for Suicide Prevention. That was something I found locally in Indiana, and then I realized their nationwide chapter. We participate in their walks. I try to do a few a year with my sisters and my brother in laws and nieces and nephews. I cannot tell you. I've done, like, breast cancer walks and many other walks. This walk was, like, the most moving thing I've ever been a part of. Something just felt different being there, and maybe because I was directly impacted, but, yeah, it was very moving. So we walk, we raise money every year. Unfortunately, since then, I've lost a few other people. Suicide, and sometimes we don't understand why, you know, I was a resource and why didn't they reach out to you? And they know my story and. But, you know, one thing I learned in therapy was that when that person is in such a dark place, it is so hard for them to get out, and they don't feel like they can get out. And I personally never experienced that feeling, so I can't say, well, yeah, they can. They could just, you know, it's not that easy. And that's one thing I learned, is that's not me. I've never been there, so I can't not be like. And I want other people to know that, too, because some people don't take mental health serious. And it's not just suicide. It's substance abuse, stress, anxiety, depression. Those are all hard things to get yourself out of.
And I can't imagine being in that, such dark of a place. Laura reached out to me more recently this year, and she knows that is something I'm very, very, very passionate about. So once she called me and asked if I would be on the committee that arteria is doing with all the operating companies, I didn't hesitate twice when she knew I wouldn't.
[00:14:10] Speaker D: Sure.
[00:14:10] Speaker C: So I'm the right person.
We started that committee. I think that's the best thing that Miller, pipeline and Artera could do, truly, especially just being so passionate about it. That is the best thing that they could be doing to their employees. So it's a mental health task force. Like I said, we're not focusing just on suicide. We're focusing on everything across the board, because everybody has their own struggles, even if it's, you know, somebody at home that, you know, they come to work fine, but then they go home. They have to deal with those types of things. And so we developed this committee. We got, I believe, ten members from different operating companies across the RTRA footprint. And we meet biweekly, and we're just trying to figure out ways, different campaigns. We're really trying to dive in deeper to see how we can help our employees and bring awareness to those that are struggling.
[00:14:59] Speaker B: Eileen, we appreciate your story.
I know a lot of folks that. That are out there doing this type of work. And what I mean is spreading awareness and having these hard conversations. You were so nervous today to get on here and talk to us, but at the same time you did it. Is there anything you would say to folks just personally out there? Obviously, they can call 988. Is there anywhere else you can think of?
[00:15:26] Speaker C: Thank you.
I do want people to know to call 988. Something I don't think a lot of people are aware of is it's not just for those that are struggling, but those that, like, if you know somebody is struggling and you want to help them, you should call them and talk to somebody and get guidance on how to. Maybe if somebody comes to you and says, hey, like, if I'm struggling, I'm thinking about doing x, y, and z, then you could call 982 and talk to somebody naked, give you and guide you ways to talk to that individual.
Or, like, myself, if I'm struggling because I lost a loved one, I could also call 988. And I don't think people realize that. I really like to spread the word about that. The AFSP, if you just type in Afsp.org, they have a lot of resources. They have social media pages. And then really, the one I think that is the most important is the employee assistance programs that companies offer. I don't know what I would have done without the therapy. I think that was a huge part of my healing process, and to be able to have that at my fingertips, that's just part of my benefits. Ibook is huge, and that's something employees need to know. It's free. It's there. It's for you to use.
[00:16:48] Speaker A: Can I just jump in? And you were very inspiring to me today. You taught me two things, Eileen. One, we're old friends, and even though we're very good friends, I still was very cautious about ever saying anything to you about all you went through, because, again, you said that stigma, and I was like, okay, it's better just to keep that up. And in our industry, one of the highest impacted by death, by suicide. I mean, it's real. And then what you mentioned about EAP is so important. Knowing that I've been sober 13 years, it took me twelve years to finally use eap. And so I just want to footstomp that. That. Absolutely. And better late than never. I will say to anybody, it's never too late.
[00:17:38] Speaker B: Thank you, ma'am, for sharing your story with us and so many others.
[00:17:43] Speaker A: One of the hardest, most emotional episodes I have ever done, James was sitting down with Eileen. Yeah, absolutely.
[00:17:51] Speaker B: Yep. And I wasn't kidding. After we wrapped up with Eileen, we were done for the day. And it was one of those where you just kind of locked up and went. Walked around for a minute, you know, very real.
[00:18:04] Speaker A: I took about 45 minutes, to be honest with you.
[00:18:07] Speaker B: Yeah. So brave of Eileen to sit down with this again. If you could have seen the nerves in there when we started, and then to hear, you know, break through all that. She only broke down once or twice, and that's pretty impressive. I think we only kept it together one or two times. I did earlier, before Eileen, we actually sat down with Jim Fox. We saved him kind of as the. The middle of the story, because when we heard his story, you know, by proxy, through Laura and others, we knew it was going to be, you know, one that needed to be told. And so when he sat down, he's in the work truck, you know, you could tell that he was stepping away from his real, real job, his real day, to be able to help others. And he's a safety guy, right? So, yes, I think he even said it in the interview. This is a different type of safety we're dealing with, you know, psychological safety.
[00:19:04] Speaker A: Tremendous point. That's something we cannot gloss over. We need to lean into that as an industry. We talk about physical safety every minute of every day. But the psychological safety, the mental safety, we need to lean into that as an industry. Absolutely. His point was unbelievable. I will say that he and I, we bonded when I learned about his story. He had alcoholism and substance abuse, and then started a group after getting sober in his church.
Likewise myself, being now sober 13 years. I volunteer at my local church, which we have an organization called REcovery Church. Very different.
Similar, but different organizations. He and I just. Absolutely. There's a little bit of a bond when you have that same type of experience between two people. But his went a lot farther than mine did. And to hear a story is emotional would be an understatement.
[00:20:00] Speaker B: Let's join right in at the conversation with Jim Fox from DDS.
[00:20:08] Speaker E: It's very important to me, suicide prevention and awareness in construction. I work for construction company underneath ArtERa, so umbrella DDS companies in Rochester, New York. And the suicide rate, construction just continues to go up. It's important for me personally. I'm a suicide attempt survivor myself, and substance abuse recovery myself as well. And I think it's important that people see that everybody can suffer.
Everybody can have that moment where they think the only way out is suicide. I myself had that moment. I had substance abuse problems, infidelity issues with my wife.
I lost my wife, lost my kids to substance abuse, and I put a gun in my mouth. And that that gun didn't go off. By the grace of God, that gun did not go off. And you have that instant regret immediately. And that. That instant regret of, man, everybody that does care about me that I felt alone. I, you know, I felt alone. I felt like nobody cared. I felt like I was a burden on everybody. And then after it all happened, I didn't realize how many people loved me, how many people were there to support me. It was me inside my own head telling myself that stuff. And that instant regret of nobody's going to understand that I didn't want to die when I pulled that trigger and it doesn't go off. I was blessed. The Lord saved me that day. I was sitting in my truck crying out to the Lord, and I didn't know God at that point. I just. You know, I was always told, if you killed yourself, you went to hell. And I was praying to God, please don't make me go to hell. I want to be with my dad. I want to be with you. And this is somebody that if he would have talked to me 15 minutes before I was in my truck, that gun in my mouth, I would have said I hated God. I hated everything he did with me.
And the Lord saved me that night, and I didn't even know it. At that point, the police department came and they mental hygiene arrested me, and I went into an inpatient program. Like I said, I had lost my wife and my kids. They didn't lose them to death. They left for their own mental stability.
I was a train wreck, and I got out of that without a scratch. So I came out, and my brother in law and sister in law, they're very big in the church, and I don't want to hear it. Didn't want to hear anything about God. Said, nope, this is crazy. You guys are nuts. They said, well, how do you think that gun didn't go off? How do you think you got saved? They say, you guys are nuts. So I went back to the apartment that my wife and kids and I lived in and walked in, and it was empty, completely empty. Kind of tore up a little bit because my wife was moving things out as fast as she could without really affecting the kids. Walked up to our bedroom, and her Bible that she got when we got married was sitting on our bed. At that point, I realized I needed something. Next day was Sunday. I went to church, and it's all been crazy since then. My wife and I got back together. We run a ministry for our church called Renewed Hope Recovery. We do recovery through the twelve steps, but with the Bible, with God's word. I try to tell my testimony that anybody that wants to hear it, because if it helps one person, that's all that matters. If it helps one person and they. They ask for help or reach out, that's my entire testimony is worth it.
[00:24:06] Speaker A: That's.
As you can tell, it choked me up a little bit. Choked me up yesterday reading your story, too, Jim, and we have something very similar. As I said, I've been sober 13 years. I also volunteer at a recovery church, which is a twelve step aa program that is faith based, Jesus based. And I also didn't realize for a while until after I was sober that Jesus saved my life, too. So, you know, as you're on this journey now, which is phenomenal, and James knows my words, if we could affect one person positively, then we've done our job.
[00:24:41] Speaker E: Amen.
[00:24:42] Speaker A: And we say that all the time. Amen is right, you know, and I don't go to a conference without at least, unfortunately, one person coming up to me and asking me, hey, was it hard? You know? And that usually indicates they or somebody they know might have an issue too, with. But personally, I could share my story a lot, and we'll do that later. I want to hear yours like a call to action. And, you know, what do you say to folks or what do you, what do you know? What's your, what's your next step for awareness or prevention in this topic of suicide prevention?
[00:25:16] Speaker E: If I can be fixed, anybody can fit be fixed. So my biggest thing to people is let it out. You got to talk about it. You're going to end up in the same spot I was. If nobody knows what's going on, they can't help you.
And if you don't be honest with yourself about what's going on, you can't help yourself. There's lots of help out there, tons of help. You get 988 your employers have employee health assistance programs. Counties have helped. Churches have help. You know, I'm always available for anybody that needs help.
And I let everybody know that, you know, there is somebody out there that cares about you that is going to miss you, that's going to question why you did it, what they could have done differently. The way you're feeling now is a temporary feeling with a permanent solution that it's gonna leave those same feelings on everybody you leave behind. I talked to my wife about the night that I attempted to kill myself. At that point, she was gone. She didn't want anything to do with me, didn't want me around the kids. And to me, it was, she hates me. No, she loved me unconditionally. While I was going through everything, she got to a point where she needed to leave for her own safety and for the mental health of our children. She and I have talked, and she shared her side of our testimony, because our testimony is our testimony together. The regret she felt about me wanting to attempt to kill myself was unbearable for her. And you don't think about that in the moment. You just want to end that temporary problem with a permanent solution. So just talk, get it out there, because there is somebody out there that cares about everybody.
[00:27:07] Speaker B: And, uh, just in case you didn't hear it, reach out to either of us, uh, any, any of us, uh, here on, on the show today. DM text us, send a message. Reach out. Someone's listening for sure. You mentioned it earlier about, you know, the numbers. That's scary right now in construction, just how many folks. It's a, it's a pandemic within itself, right? So I guess what, um, what kind of drove this initial discussion and getting us together was our industry and the things that Artera is doing, you know, within y'all's companies. I know y'all put some intentionality, some effort around bringing this to light and making sure your people are taken care of. Do you Want to talk a little bit about that?
[00:27:52] Speaker E: Yeah. I started dds through ARTERa two years ago, almost two years now. AnD working for a company that cares so much about their employees. Sorry, it's choking me up. It's when everything happened with my suicide attempt, I worked in public safety. I've been a fireman for over 20 years. The care I get out of Artera, just how much, from the CEO to the mechanics, everybody cares. It's awesome. And I hope that we're paving the way for other construction companies to do this, because it's not just our numbers, it's an industry number. And I'm hoping that other companies will see that it's time to step up and say, this is not okay.
We need to preach help, that we want to get people.
I work in safety. I'm a safety coordinator. We're always constantly talking about safety, safety, safety, safety, as the whole safe. Are you slip trips and falls. How often on a job briefing do you say? How's your mental health?
Are you safe inside?
You can be safe outside. The second you're unsafe inside, the outside stuff just spirals.
So we got to make sure our people are safe on the inside.
[00:29:28] Speaker B: Yeah, it sounds like psychological safety, right? That, yeah, sounds like a new topic, but it's always been there. We just haven't asked the question.
[00:29:37] Speaker E: Right. And you can't. You can't force people to talk about it, but you can give them the avenues to go when they do. They need it. You know, it's hard to talk about it. There's no doubt about it. I spent years not talking about it and holding it in, but.
[00:29:52] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:29:53] Speaker E: You know, once you know, you have the avenues to go and you work for a company that cares so much about their people, it's awesome.
[00:30:01] Speaker B: That's awesome.
Well, Mister Fox, we appreciate the work you do, not only keeping our gas systems running out there in this world and other things, but also just for your story, your testimony, and all the work you're putting into this. I know arter appreciates it, but our industry appreciates it as well.
[00:30:21] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:30:22] Speaker E: Thank you.
[00:30:23] Speaker B: All right. Appreciate your brother.
[00:30:25] Speaker E: Thank you.
[00:30:27] Speaker A: Hey, stay safe.
[00:30:30] Speaker B: I think it says a lot to me when Jim Fox, you know, that Artera isn't like or DDS isn't like other companies. You know, the way they've treated him and worked with him and allowed him to continue to share his story and be who he was. You could tell how much that meant to him. You know, someone who doesn't take things very lightly, as well he shouldn't in life. You could tell that was very clear.
[00:30:59] Speaker A: Yeah. And he even said that was a condition of his employment. I'll take the job, but just know that I had this experience, and I'm going to shout from the mountaintops going forward how I can potentially affect, positively affect just one person if I can. And Artera said, come on board, we've.
[00:31:17] Speaker B: Got a job for you. Not only that, do you want to chair the committee for it? Yeah, I mean, you know, you hate to make light of it, but it's the truth, man. Both stories just absolutely floored us. We hope that they've, they've reached someone out there who's struggling. There's, you know, there's got to be folks in our industry, specifically the natural gas, but also construction as a whole, utilities as a whole, all the folks and all of our listeners, you know, there's companies out there that are working on this, but not all companies are. And that's the truth. And so as many eyes as we can put this in front of, the better, but our terror is, and that's amazing news. And the folks over there, you know, they've got a big group, and so they can touch, you know, the lives of many people that work for them. And so we've been blessed to be able to be good friends with somebody over there. Dustin Dyer. Yeah, we just saw him not too long ago, Atlanta, at the headquarters, and he was talking about this very thing. And again, to see his name on the list when we were going to record it was, this stuff is hitting home with people. And it was neat to hear his perspective, Jim. And we're going to jump in there, see, you know, why. What's the why behind what our tears doing as a company, you know, in terms of mental health and, and specifically this month with suicide prevention. So let's jump in there, Jimmy, and let's anxious for everybody to kind of hear, you know, how our chair is handling this, because I think it's very boring.
[00:32:58] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:33:01] Speaker D: So since I was joined the workforce, I've been doing construction. And it's always been talked about that this number of mental health type issues in construction is three, four times greater than the average. And so it's a problem that's got to be addressed. And then I had an experience just working in other places, and some are ahead of us in the US on this topic, and I don't understand that necessarily, but we should catch up. Whatever we can do to catch up, we should try. And the other thing, too, about just being a corporate HSC type leader guy, everybody does something around mental health, but typically it's seasonal, and that's great. We should continue to do that every time you get to Christmas. Some folks have family, so don't. And that's important to remember. But at the same time, this is almost continuous, perpetual, doesn't stop, you know, and so we got these exaggerated numbers and destruction where we obviously struggle with this. It's such an interesting topic, too, because it's not just suicide. That's a big part of it. It's also substance abuse related. It's a mental health issue. And then I think we've talked about before, but I'll say again, is that you got x number of workers that may struggle with mental health things from time to time, to whatever extent, some greater than others, with varying degrees of coping ability. But if you also think about construction and travel and transit and going to project, to project, these, these folks, these men and women that are in our business are carrying around three or four dependents, probably on average, maybe three, two, three. And they have mental health issues, statistically speaking as well. And that's coming into the work. So it's not just the employee that's dealing with what he's dealing with or she's dealing with, but the folks at home that they're away from while they're putting this pipe in the ground, you know, so it just comes in so many different facets of business that it's worth addressing, you know, so personally. For me, though, to your question, James, you said, why is it important to me? Well, just in my family, there's been substance abuse issues to one degree or another, different family members. So I've kind of always been around that to some extent. And so that kind of this new thing around this fentanyl stuff, 15 years ago, this synthetic opiate stuff was a problem. There was no fentanyl. This is a whole nother ballgame with this fentanyl stuff that's coming in across the borders, and it kills, you know, it kills instantly because there's no measure to it, there's no scientific anything to it. And it's so cheap. It's going to be the problem we face going forward for keeping the workforce safe.
[00:35:37] Speaker A: Yeah. And I'll tell you just by talking about this before, but I have lost a personal friend of mine to fentanyl that happened last year, addicted somewhat to it. And then one tablet was just a, as the industry says, a hot batch, and he died. And then that was it.
[00:35:55] Speaker D: There was no times more addictive than morphine, a hundred times more addictive than heroine, if you can even wrap your brain around that.
[00:36:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:03] Speaker D: And it's not, you know, I'm kind of in this community, recovery community to some extent, more than others, probably. And it's not just the people you drop by on the side of the road. You say, oh, somewhere along the way, we made a bad life decision. Now, these are college athletes who got injured and took what they thought was a muscle relaxer and didn't wake up. These are students that are studying for a test. They think they're taking an adderall. They die. These are first time user type deaths in our schools. You know, it's rampant.
[00:36:34] Speaker B: So, Dustin, you mentioned the. The numbers being higher in construction, and we all know that it's a, you know, a male dominated field, at least currently, that there's definitely more and more women every day. But, you know, coming with that, I'm male myself, there. There's a stigma, you know, that we've got to work through to a stigma when it comes to mental health.
[00:36:58] Speaker D: And I think it's a tough nut to crack, so to speak. But for us, just from a leadership perspective, I'm trying to think of where my. Where I can influence. And, you know, we train on a lot of things, so we solve skills, workforce skills and development stuff specific to our trade, but we don't do a lot of training around mental health awareness, and so. But our supervisors are left to deal with it. And so I think step one for us, well, step one for me specifically was getting executive support buy in, which we did early on at our tariffs. I grew up watching my grandfather work, so we all have a mental or that we aspire to follow or work like, and so that's important. These folks look up to their supervision. They really do. And so for them to be properly equipped and trained to handle it is a big thing. Now, I don't need my supervisors to be mental health professionals or recovery specialists, but they should have that awareness to know you, look, something's going on. Let's just not tell him, go home for the day and come back tomorrow, because he might not make it till tomorrow. So we're focused on getting supervisors great training around this particular topic relative to their role in it, which is managing people. And so we're focused on that. We found some good resources there.
[00:38:11] Speaker A: Has that taken down, do you think the stigma, and I think we've all talked about this offline. I mean, even in my lifetime, I remember 20 plus years ago where somebody told me, oh, you're having a bad day, you're depressed, take the day off. Go have a couple of drinks. You'll feel better, then come back tomorrow?
That was honestly said to me, as, you know, something that I should do. I look at it now, and I just shake my head. I'm like, I cannot believe that even 20 years ago that was being said.
[00:38:42] Speaker D: Yeah, I won't share anything real personal, but we had a workforce event not long ago where that scenario existed, but instead, the supervisor recognized it and kept that worker at the work site and productive throughout that day, not doing his normal job. Anything else. And we kept him in close proximity to others, and we didn't. We did not know it at the time, but the employee circled back around to say that that made a significant difference. What happened?
[00:39:10] Speaker B: So, Dustin, I know Arter's putting some effort into this, more so than maybe other companies out there, but what are you guys doing over there that's a little different?
[00:39:21] Speaker D: Well, I think everybody's got the traditional HR erpental program. I think the key is there's so much going on in construction business, from finances to closing the books to project execution to all these things we got to do, logistics of people and equipment. And it's easy to get focused on the traditional metrics, life safety metrics, which I'm involved in all the time, to carve out time to talk about mental health specifically, I don't think happens accidentally. So you got to be very intentional about. So, for me, it was getting with our CEO, Joel, and really making a plan to get our leadership team to talk about mental health, which everybody was very supportive. I don't know that that would have occurred naturally without kind of pushing the issue a little bit, but once we were all aligned, that made a ton of difference. So how do you do that, other than just meetings, getting them on camera, that we do so much more with video today, getting them to open up, tell a story about it, relate to it, let folks know it's okay to talk about or even that. That a leader has issues to think, oh, they got it all together. I want to be like that person, and they have days, too.
So that was step one. The other thing, too, James, I think, is this is for anybody, construction research line, you know, out of Boulder, Colorado. Over there, they. They have a program through another organization. I think it's called vital cog, which does a great supervisor train the trainer type course. It was a great course for us to find, and we're starting to get folks through it. So I think that'll help.
[00:40:53] Speaker A: Justin, let me lean in a little bit more on the personal side, because you hit something just recently in your talk that kind of sparked something with me in, when I was on a right away or whatever, like in the morning, I would look at people's eyes, I would look at their hands to see if things were shaking again, more so associated with alcohol. And I would have, what, you know, and I apologize to everybody I've ever done this to. Oh, go have some coffee. Well, all you have is a wide awake drunk. You know, you don't have a sober person, and you've really enlightened myself, as well as others have, to the crisis more in the opioids and the fentanyl right now.
And thinking about that, you know, as for somebody like me, what should I do? What should I look for? What safety things should we be having in the workplace to somebody were to overdose on a job site?
[00:41:45] Speaker D: There's an opioid reversal medicine. So just down for me. I'm in Atlanta. There's a public high school not far from me on the other side of Atlanta, where a couple months ago, there was a student that overdosed and passed away at this particular high school, 15 year old female. Well, they did not have this, as I understand it, they did not have this reversal medication. And so today, the school systems have resource officers and different things. But my point of the whole conversation, as it relates to the workforce is where you used to have a first aid kit, a fire extinguisher, an AED. Now you need three things, plus Narcan. It should be in the workforce. It should be around the first aid kits. But I'm telling you, it is critical to saving lives related to this fentanyl crisis. And for us not to have it, it's just like not having an AED or nappy pets.
[00:42:32] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. I appreciate what you guys are doing. If there's any. Anybody out there struggling, anybody out there that wants to talk, anything, know, my. My inbox is open. If you got my number, you need my number, reach out. I'm always open. Jim's been very open. I know you've mentioned it before, but any call to action for folks out there that might be struggling a bit?
[00:42:56] Speaker D: Yeah, I just think that they'd be surprised how well their supervision could relate to it if they brought it up. And then always, you can find a good HSE professional that, you know, we wear all those hats, counselor, marriage counselor, because they're professional, all those things. And so I guarantee you, an HSC person, a safety person, an HR professional, there's somebody in your workforce you could talk to about it other than struggle with it on your own. And I think you would be really surprised as to how that conversation went for you guys.
[00:43:27] Speaker B: And so spoken by a true professional. Thank you, Dustin, for all y'all are doing.
[00:43:34] Speaker D: Thanks for the. For the platform. Talk about it, for sure.
[00:43:38] Speaker A: It's our honor.
[00:43:40] Speaker B: You gotta have a while, Jimmy. You know, I mean.
[00:43:43] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:43:44] Speaker B: It's. It's clear as day how they're doing what they are. And you can see it in their people. You can see it's not just lip service. You can see it in the actions by what they're doing. The testimonies we heard in this episode, there's no question why this is so. Such an important topic.
[00:44:02] Speaker A: Yeah, no, without a doubt. And again, so many kudos, my strong respect, my heart, everything. To Eileen, Jim, and Dustin for joining us and being so brave and to tell the stories and to tell the. Tell things that are hard to hear, but we need to hear it. And if they can be this brave, we can be this brave. And what we need to do is be good people and stewards and neighbors and friends and family and everything, and look out for folks. Look for the signs and buy any thoughts of any concerns. Call or text 988. Anybody and everybody should have that number. 988. And just talk to a professional just to say, either I'm feeling this way or I'm seeing my friend or my family member feel this way, and I'm concerned.
[00:44:51] Speaker B: If you got my number, it's always open. Friend or foe, it doesn't matter. If you're feeling some type of way, please reach out. Not just this month, either, you know, share this this month twice. But, you know, this is the message we want to get out all the time.
[00:45:09] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:45:10] Speaker A: Reach us 365.
[00:45:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Hey, we appreciate, appreciate those messages. The work going on over at Artera as well.
[00:45:17] Speaker E: Oh, yeah.
[00:45:18] Speaker B: Great partners as always.
[00:45:20] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:45:21] Speaker B: But please share this message. Let's get it out, see how many people we can impact.
[00:45:27] Speaker A: Absolutely. Till next time, stay safe, everyone.
